Chat Transcript - July 23, 2007
Posted on July 24, 2007
santo i have my 6th house under contract
Al Lee fantastic!
Al Lee are they located?
Al Lee where
santo in buffalo
Al Lee so many people come into the chat room and say they can not get started. You did!
santo a 3 fam. for $63,000
Al Lee Wow! that is cheap.
santo in 6 months 6 houses, 12 units
Al Lee Are they all cash flowing?
santo all flowing good
Al Lee YOu are going to be rich then.
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santo al how do i click on the sound, here i hit something and i get no sound
Mike_Summey Hi Guys!
santo hi mike
Mike_Summey Where is everyone tonight?
Mike_Summey Or are we just early?
Al Lee Hi, Mike
Al Lee We are a bit early
Mike_Summey Al & Santo, did you get my email with the attachment today?
Al Lee santo, I think you may have muted the sound for your computer. Go to control panel and mouse around until you find it.
Al Lee Yep!
santo mike, i was telling al about my 6th house, a 3 fam. for $63,000
Mike_Summey I messed up and sent it without the attachment and then when I tried to resend it the mail server went down and it took most of the day to get it back up and working.
Mike_Summey Hi Deb
deb hello where is everyone
Al Lee HI
Mike_Summey Santo, it sounds like you are really getting the hang of things.
Mike_Summey Hi Penny
deb I have a question to ask need good advice
Penny Hi Mike,
santo thanks Al i can hear again
Mike_Summey Shoot
santo hi Deb
Al Lee Difficulet problems fixed immediately. Impossible ones take a bit longer.
Al Lee difficult
deb I have 2 properties in Mass. Live in one the other is empty and on the market, no action at all. Tried to rent it out but, excuse my language but nothing but trash people looking to rent. I am falling behind at a fast rate where my own home is going to be in jeopary. Any suggestions
Mike_Summey Al, I guess everyone saw my email that Roger wouldn’t be with us tonight so no one wanted to talk to me.
Al Lee Mik, I wanted to talk to you 
Mike_Summey Deb, have you talked with a professional property manager about handling the rental for you?
deb No I have not,
Mike_Summey My experience is that people who try to handle rentals themselves often get the people that professionals won’t deal with.
deb Dont know how to find a property manager
deb how do you know if they are good or not
Al Lee Mike, I agree. It is folly to try to manage them yourself. People think they are sving soemthing, but they usually are not. The only people who shoudl self-manage ar those who will go and BECOME professional managers through training and membership in a professional organization.
santo mike, 6 properties, in 6 months, 12 units, i was trying for 10 units in one year, i guess i am ahead of my plan
Mike_Summey A good professional manager will check credit and criminal backgrounds before renting. People with problems won’t usually spend the application fee a profesional manager charges because they know they will be turned down. That leaves the private individuals who aren’t as strict as their remaining option.
Mike_Summey santo, this may be a good time to catch your breath and let what you have mature for a few months. I think the best deals are still 6-18 months ahead.
deb But how do I know the property manager is great and Im not being scr—- over
santo Al, was all that rain near you
Al Lee we have rain for every day for over a month. It is slowed down now.
Mike_Summey deb, interview several. Have you read chapter 6 in the real estate book?
Mike_Summey Hi Bill
santo mike, that is what my broker told me
Al Lee This is the rainiest year I remember since 1990 when my house flooded.
santo hi bill
Mike_Summey santo, listen to him.
deb I will go back and re read
deb what is an average monthly fee for a good manager
Mike_Summey deb, do you want to sell the second house or keep it?
santo deb 10%
Mike_Summey deb, most managers charge 6-12% of the rent they collect.
Bill L Hi Mike
deb I would like to keep it because of course this is what I really want to do is aquire cash flow propert
Bill L hi santo
Mike_Summey deb, the first few years are always the most difficult. The longer you own the property the wider the margins become as rents increase and the mortgage pays down.
Al Lee deb, go to www.narpm.com and see if they have any members in yoru area. National Association of Residential Property Managers
Mike_Summey Al, Roger is in the air right now on a 14 hour flight to China.
deb The other reason it went on the market was I thought we were going to head to florida, but that is on hold for now
Bill L Al, Mike I am so glad I read these becuase I also am looking for a good PM
Al Lee I do not envy Roger, I have done those long flights and it is not fun
Mike_Summey Deb, this in not a good time to sell as the market has cooled dramatically in most places.
deb you guys will want to choke me… this property was left to me
Mike_Summey Hi Rich
deb no mortgage
richfasano Hi Mike
Mike_Summey Deb, then why are you worried?
Mike_Summey Hi Sparky
sparky37 Hello Mike
Al Lee Being a member of NARPM does not guarantee that a property manager is good, but it is a start. Members have to subscribe to continuing education and stay current regulations and laws that affect you.
sparky37 small crowd
deb Just can not find normal people to rent.
Bill L Deb, That is a great way to start. I am working on trying to get my mother’s house at wholesale.
Mike_Summey Sparky, that is good for the ones here. More time to ask questions.
sparky37 true
Al Lee find a good PM and let them find a good tenant
deb Its in the city, not to bad of a neighborhood, but
Bill L Al, but it is better that darts and a phone book…
deb I think thats what I need to do.
Mike_Summey Deb, the key to success is finding a good PM so you can devote your time to finding more properties.
Al Lee Bill, yes, it is a good place to start. there are also other organizations of PMs to check into.
deb Do property managers ever deal with section 8
Bill L Mke, that is what I keep telling my wife, our job is to find propoerties
Al Lee deb, certainly they do!
Mike_Summey My advice on property managers is to conduct extensive interviews with them, spell out what you expect and find out what they expect. Hire one that is most compatible with your needs and personality.
Mike_Summey Hi Ken
KenJonAI Hello Everyone
deb So I can find a respectable family on section 8 going through a property manager
Al Lee deb, if you PM is proficient with Sectin 8, yes you can. If they are not proficient, it will be a debacle and you will end up switching managers. Ask how much experience they have with Section 8
deb so if I were to get 1320.00 a month rent… the PM would want how much?
Mike_Summey Deb, keep in mind that a good property manager puts your interest first always. They know that they can find another tenant tomorrow, but owners are much harder to come by.
Mike_Summey deb, as I mentioned earlier, PMs usually charge between 6-12% of what they collect.
santo deb, $132. a month
santo deb at 10%
deb that does not seem like much money to deal with everything from a tenant
Mike_Summey If the properties are vacant, the PM gets nothing, so they have a vested interest in keeping them rented.
Al Lee deb, it they do a good jab on the front end they have little or nothing to do for months at a time and still make that fee every month. For the good PMs it is a great business. It is also great for you if you have the right PM.
deb HMM, I don’t know what I missed, but I need to re read take the house off the market and interview property managers
Jeff Hello everyone!
KenJonAI Mike, It’s been a while since I’ve been on the chat, I’ve been busy hunting out deals on homes. . . .
Al Lee deb, most PMs also charge a leasign fee. That is 50-100% of the first month’s rent. It is used to pay a commission to an agent who finds the tenant.
Mike_Summey Deb, it seems like a small amount because it is in relation to the headaches they take off of you. However, when they manage several properties it becomes a different story. I pay a much lower percentage than Santo, but I still have managers that make $4,000 - $6,000 per month from jsut my properties.
Mike_Summey Hi Jeff
Bill L Deb, FInd a way to keep the house..
deb Thank you, You guys have cleared up a cob web for me.
Mike_Summey Ken, had any luck?
santo mike, i changed my pm last week, my broker does pm, and he charges $40 a unit no matter what the rent is
Mike_Summey Al, I’ve never paid a leasing fee to a PM.
KenJonAI After 40+ offers, I’ve got a contract and am supposed to close next month.
deb There is also a couple houses in the neighborhood for sale, maybe I should grab them, PM would be happy huh
Jeff I ran into a problem with my property management company. They were very slow to meet tenants, and the tenants ended up sending their checks to the previous owner. How can I get this money back? Should I ask the company to reimburse me the rents for the month?
Al Lee Mike, you have a deal that most folks can not get until they have more properties.
Jeff I plan on switching property management companies very soon, when this ordeal is over with
Al Lee With the lesing fee they can list the house in MLS and pay another agent a commission. That gives you more opportunities to get a good tenant.
Mike_Summey Ken, that’s great. Don’t worry about how many offers you’ve made. I once made 50 consecutive ones that were rejected. You’ll gain experience and I promise you won’t lose money on the ones you don’t buy.
santo AL, how many properties do you need for a better rate from a pm
KenJonAI Mike,
KenJonAI Mike that’s right, I’m glad I was patient. Right now it looks like the home will produce a solid cash flow from the get-go, which was definately tough to find.
Al Lee santo, it varies from one PM to another and with what yo0u can negotiate. Usually at 5-6 you can get a lower rate than for 1. For 10 or more an even lower rate.
deb Ken where are you located?
Mike_Summey Al, I’ve never paid a leasing fee…even when I only had one house. I think a good PM can get tenants without having to pay someone else to do it. Why would I want to pay a PM to get a tenant and then have them pay someone else to do what I’m paying them to do.
KenJonAI Mike I think next time I’d know so much more and it would take 20 or less offers to put together a deal. I just hope I can make the cash flow that it looks like long term.
KenJonAI Deb, I’m in North Florida. Where are you?
Al Lee Mike, you make a good point.
deb Mass, I was headed to pensacola but thats put off for now
Mike_Summey Ken, after the 50 rejected offers, 6 of the next 10 were accepted. A lot of it depends on market conditions.
santo Al, my broker is charging me $40 a unit as a pm no matter what the rent is, this is a good deal, right
Mike_Summey Hi 1099
Al Lee santo, sounds good. SAo long as he does a good job.
1099 Hello everyone how is everybody doing
Mike_Summey santo, what is the PM doing for this fee?
Al Lee hi, 1099
KenJonAI Mike, I’ve been super-conservative also. It’s like I wished I knew everything from the start, but you can’t. You just have to keep trying until you find offers that work.
Bill L hi 1099
1099 Hey Al how r u Hi Bill L
deb ken you sound alot more positive than last time I talked with you..good for you
Al Lee 1099, I am doing great, and yourself?
Mike_Summey Ken, becoming a successful investor is like learning to walk. You stumble a few times in the beginning, but as you get steadier on your feet eventually you can run.
Mike_Summey Ken, that’s why we list “Being Impatient” as the #1 mistake new investors make.
Mike_Summey Hi msrg & kathy
1099 Fine things are start to pick up for me and wife here in Charlotte Real Estate and other things as well
KenJonAI Mike, I’m a runner, I can relate to that one.
mrsg Hi Mike!
mrsg Love weekend millionaire
Mike_Summey Thanks msrg
santo mike, collects rents, area maint. repairs, snow removal for $30. lawn work in summer $25. a month
Mike_Summey santo, that sounds good.
Jeff Due to me PM company tardiness, the tenants sent their checks to the previous owner. What should I do in a situation like this?
Al Lee I read that 7% of the sub-prime loans made in the last 3 years are in default or are delinquent and probalby will be in default soon. That is the tip of the iceberg. that means a lot of people will again become renters !!!
deb Did you contact the previous owners
Mike_Summey Jeff, contact the previous owner and request your money. If they don’t send it have your attorney send them a letter. If they keep the money knowing it’s not theirs that’s against the law.
Jeff My PM company is contacting on my behalf. So hopefully all will go well. Thanks for your advice
deb send them a certified letter, receipt requested
mrsg I know I’m late here, but I have a question when it’s the right time
Al Lee Now is the right time
Mike_Summey Al, I think your are right. We are just seeing the tip of the iceberg right now. I think in 6-18 months there will be blood running in the streets from the people who bought under the greater fool theory we wrote about in the real estate book.
Al Lee Hello
mrsg Hi…just didn’t want to interrupt
Jeff Has anyone ever raised rents on the tenants right when you close on the property? Would this be ok if their rents have never been raised before?
deb these chats need to be longer
mrsg What advice would you give to a new investor in the South Fla markets?
Al Lee Mike, no questin about it. It is starting already. That is good news for real investors. Bad news for speculators and flippers.
mrsg It’s been known that it’s tough to sell and I’m just not quite sure what’s the best way to get a foot in the door
deb I know when I used to rent when the property was sold my rent went up
Mike_Summey msrg just jump in anytime. If I miss your question try it again.
Bill L I wold raise the rent as long as propoer notice is given.
Mike_Summey msrg, my advice to a South Florida investor is to make offers that will work for you and be patient. Prices are falling now and will fall more before this cycle turns. Hang tough and don’t get impatient.
Al Lee Don;t rais it so much that it gives the tenant cause to move out. Raise it a little at a time and it is easier and cheaper for them to pay the increase than to move
deb I hear florida is having a heck of a time with homeowners ins
mrsg Fla insurance has hit the roof
Mike_Summey Jeff, I nearly always raise rents when I first purchase a property unless the tenant has a lease that prevent it.
Al Lee On an ongoing basis, raise rent every time a lease renews. That way you will not get too far behind and have to issue a huge increase at one time. Tenants just move out then.
mrsg Property taxes too
deb dont know if its still going on
Mike_Summey mrsg, insurance is a huge problem in S Florida and in the Gulf Coast area.
Al Lee Texas insurance skyrockedted a few years ago. Now it is coming down and so is the tax rate. Great windfall for investors.
Mike_Summey Hi MikeF
Intromaster (MikeF) Hey all!
mrsg Thanks Mike. I was wondering if there was a certain type of investing that would be best for this market, ie. short sales, subject to, wholesaling, etc.
Jeff Thanks everyone for the advice on rents
Mike_Summey I’m trying to lure a corporate headquarters from S Florida or the Gulf coast area to come to my new building in the Asheville, NC area.
santo mike, i have a freind who i am trying to get started in real estate, he has $350,000 to invest, and he will inherit $500,000 soon, but he has negative thoughts about it all. he says to me what if they don’t pay the rent, what if there is a hurricane, what if there is a flood, he say’s at any moment i could be wiped out it’s a shame, all that money and all those negative thoughts
KenJonAI mrsg - buy and hold, why sell?
deb who uses the offer generator here
1099 I just stop in to learn some info I am now taking a class in asset protection which is I see is very improtant to know about when one start getting properties and a business. What to you thing Al and Mike seem like a good move
Mike_Summey mrsg, most of those things you mentioned are speculating, not investing. Be careful!!!
Al Lee 1099, waht sort of move are you asking about?
KenJonAI Deb, I used the offer generator and highly recommend. When you are making 40 offers, it really cuts the work out and allows you to quickly evaluate properties. You spend time getting good data, not crunching numbers.
1099 Learning about Asset Protections Al
KenJonAI Mike, Al, Everyone, thanks for the chat, and have a great evening.
deb does it actually help you in constructing a good offer. proper language and such
Mike_Summey 1099, I’m not too concerned about asset protection. I still think the best protection is good insurance.
1099 and your insurance is for what Mike if you dont mind me asking?
deb what is the safest way to own property, in your own name or not
Al Lee 1099, if you are asking about forming a legal entity to hold RE, I suggest you look into how it might affect your financing options.
Mike_Summey deb, the Offer Generator helps you construct dozens of ways to buy any given property. It produce letters of intent that when accepted need to be transferred to the proper contract for your state.
Intromaster (MikeF) Any insurance companies you know of that still offers FULL REPLACEMENT COSTS instead of the usual coverage?
deb oh ok
1099 Thats what I have be doing mike before jumping into to the fire with no water around to put it out if I have to
Jeff I have to head off, thank you for the help everyone! Good night!
Al Lee Why would you want to buy such expensive insurance? You will not likely every have to replace an entire house and the premiums will be very high. I use large deductible and neve rmake a claim unless it is large–new roof, etc.
Mike_Summey I insure my properties under a blanket policy with Nationwide Insurance. It provides me with replacement cost coverage in the event of fire or natural damage. I carry a large liability policy to cover me in the event of a liability claim, but I require my property managers to add me as a named insured to their liability insurance also.
1099 Good talking to your and I always enjoy your chats Mike , Al to website keep me in on time with infor your take care have to go to class now.
Al Lee goodnight
Mike_Summey Goodnight 1099
1099 Thank You for the info Mike
deb Is that something PMs are used to doing or no
Intromaster (MikeF) because the usual policy isnt adequate after they nickle and dime you and it’s never enough to replace the items. total replacement will insure that your property can be rebuilt if it’s a total loss.
Al Lee if you Google me with just my name you will get a lot of people with similar names. My website is www.myrentproperty.com
Mike_Summey Someone asked about the best way to hold title to properties. I hold mine in various LLCs, but I do it for estate planning purposes, not necessarily for liability protection although it has some benefits there too. Just keep in mind that even if you hold title in an LLC you will usually still have to personally sign the mortgage loan.
Mike_Summey MikeF, where are you located?
santo mike, how is the office building coming along
deb Do you still get all the tax benefits if its an llc
Intromaster (MikeF) NY
Mike_Summey Santo, it is still in the proposal stage. I’m just beginning to market it.
Intromaster (MikeF) Metro Area (where everything is expensive)
Mike_Summey deb, if you use a single member LLC it’s handled taxwise the same as if you owned it in your name personally.
Mike_Summey MikeF, Metro Area where? Insurance is more of a problem is some areas than others.
deb can you own it in your name at first then later on a LLC
Al Lee deb, if it is a single-member LLC it is ignored by the IRS, so all the tax benefits shoudl pass through. Problem is that if yo are trying to use residential real estate financing, like 30-year fixed-rate mortgages, the lenders won’t loan to an entity. You will have to use commercial lending, which is not usually as favorable.
Intromaster (MikeF) Queens, NY and Brooklyn, NY
Al Lee You can transfer from yoru name ot an LLC, but you should get permission from your lender first–in writing. Otherwise, you can trigger the “due on sale” clause in the mortgage.
Mike_Summey deb, yes you can transfer it to an LLC at any time. Just be sure that if you do you notify your lender as to what you are doing. Be sure they don’t have a problem, which they shouldn’t as long as you remain on the note.
Intromaster (MikeF) where home values are $450K-$550
deb how do you hold your properties Al
Al Lee Intromaster, it you are interested in new hosues that are more affordable and will cash flow, go to www.buyRentHouse.net
Al Lee Most of the buyers/owners/investors live in NY or CA, so you would not be unusual. BTW, I am from Astoria myself.
santo nite all
Al Lee Night
Mike_Summey MikeF, you may find better deals across the river in NJ or PA. It’s more difficult to find properties that will cash flow when you are dealing with the market pressures of a major city. In any event, you shouldn’t have a problem getting full replacement cost coverage in that area.
Al Lee I live in Dallas now, of course
Intromaster (MikeF) Al, yes, I have been to your site a few times….lots of great info!!!
Mike_Summey Goodnight Santo
Intromaster (MikeF) keep going back and replaying the interviews (just dont like the .swf format)
Mike_Summey MikeF, the what?
Al Lee Experts are predicting flat or dropping houing values in most of the country; but appreciating values in DFW !!!
Intromaster (MikeF) Mike, I am now looking into PA and even Jersey (jersey city) because those cities are more affordable!
Mike_Summey Al, that’s because Dallas didn’t experience the wild runup the rest of the country did over the past few years.
Al Lee I am thinking of switching back to MP3 format for “podcasting”
Intromaster (MikeF) (.swf format) - flash format
Mike_Summey MikeF, oh! That was about Al’s site right?
Al Lee Mike, yes, that is right. ALso, it is the fastest-growing major metro area in the US
Intromaster (MikeF) hard to go back and repeat something in the interview I hear without starting from the beginning
Intromaster (MikeF) yes
deb are they part of the huge flooding going on down there
Al Lee We went to the flash format becaue it was easy to make it stream without waiting for a download. With MP3 it depended on the plug-ins youhave on your computer.
Intromaster (MikeF) I find new little gems everytime I replay the interviews!
Al Lee Thanks
Mike_Summey I’m thinking of creating a monthly “Tips for Financial Success” Cd series. Each month would contain four tips on an audio CD. About 20-30 minutes in length. Any thoughts?
Al Lee I like it
Mike_Summey Hi Dave
sparky37 Sounds interesting Mike
Intromaster (MikeF) Mike and AL, I really appreciate the help you have given me with all the free resources and your time! thanks! gracias!
Al Lee INtromaster, have you ever listened live on Sunday when we broadcast?
Al Lee de nada!
Intromaster (MikeF) NO! didnt know that (live?)
Mike_Summey Each tip would be a stand alone tip that one could put in practice. You would be able to pick and choose from a new group each month.
Intromaster (MikeF) MIKE, I would even pay for that!
Al Lee Yes, live. It is right on the same page where you listen to the recorded shows. Look at the top.
Intromaster (MikeF) ok, will do, AL!
sparky37 night all
Al Lee OK, I need to run now, too
Al Lee Goodnight
Intromaster (MikeF) nite all!
Mike_Summey I let everyone know if I decide to go ahead with the project. I’ve had several people ask for something like that. It would cover many topics in addition to real estate. Everything from buying properties to teaching your children about money.
Intromaster (MikeF) I’m interested in the real estate tips myself
Mike_Summey I’ve got to run also. I’ll see you here next Monday. Goodnight all.
deb thanks to all, helping me put my thoughts back in perspective, about selling or renting. I think I know what I need to do now.
Intromaster (MikeF) ok bye!
deb goodnight
deb what areas are all of you from
Bill L Deb, I am from Manassas, VA
deb do you like virginia
Bill L Yeah, It is pretty nice.
Bill L how about you?
deb We would like to move, would love change, just dont know where to go
deb From Mass
Bill L The NOrthern VA area is nice but expensive RE. There are no 150K homes.
deb seems like everywhere has fires floods hurricanes tornados, except here
Bill L they are 300-400K
Bill L No Hurricanes small flooding depend on area, maybe one or two toronados.
deb thats what they are around here starts around 350 although you can find some cheaper but there in bad areas or need alot of repair
Bill L SOunds about the same. We just start a bit higher, ideas are the same..Buy & Hold
deb I’ve visited va, I think its pretty there, dont know if I could take the humidity though
deb my brother lived there for awhile, he just moved to missouiri
Bill L Deb, it can’t be any worst then the cold in MA
deb Oh I know I hate the cold, thats why we want to leave but like I said just dont know where to go
Bill L We do have 4 seasons,
deb all my brothers left ma
deb one missori, florida arizona
deb wish I could find a place where it was fall year round
Bill L the humid summer is short and so is the cold winter, and here little snow, but every 4-5 years you get something like a 10-12 inches from a strom but it is gone in a week or so
deb my biggest problem is Im terrified of thunderstorms, ( i know crazy)
Bill L Not so bad but we have some
deb yeah we get some good ones here also, they just seem to be worse down south
deb cant escape them though
Bill L Way down south like AL, GA, FLA, Miss.
Bill L here every once in a while during the spring into summer.
deb my husband wants to go to pensacola, lightning capital of the world in florida
Bill L Yeah, my sister is in Jackonsville.
deb I wouldnt mind because we both have family there but, there insurance and taxes have gone crazy
Bill L Damm hurricanes.
deb although you can get some great deals on property there right now, just dont know if you can get insurance
deb plus you have to run like hell if theres a hurricane
Bill L When I reitre I am thinking out Washington ST. except it is too gray from me not enough sun.
deb I definately would not be one of those fools that rides out the storm
Bill L Sounds like a good plan, Ibecuase if you stay you there for the FULL ride.
deb yeah right out to sea, no thanks
deb shark bait
Bill L ANother neat place is Hawaii, the big insland, pretty, nice weather all year but it a volcanican island.
deb maybe if I get going in investing I can have a place in several locations…now theres a thought, thats my dream
deb travel with the seasons
Bill L That the way to go becuase each trip is a business expense, checking on your porpoerties.
deb yes Ive heard great things about hawaii
deb never thought of that, thanks one step closer
deb ow do you hold title to your property
deb do you use an LLC or just in your own name
Bill L right now we a working the plan for LLC and S-corps. For taxes and liabilties
deb this stuff gets so confusing
deb but I guess for now holding them in my own name is ok till I learn the ropes
Bill L That fine but DON’T forget the insurance coverage, liabilty mainly and replacement coverage.
deb yes definately
Bill L I have increased mine to 2M
deb do I dare ask what that costs
deb do you have one policy that covers all your propertys
Bill L I am not sure as my wife does the bills, but as I remeber it was not that much more. ONe blanket policy.
deb is that easy to do, to ad a property on the policy as you accumulate them
Bill L So far, but I image there is a company liimt. I am not that big yet, 5 porpoerties now more coming.
deb 5 is a great start. how long have you been doing this
Bill L You should also find a REIG Real Estate Investers Group in your area, it like minded people together to share and help.
Bill L With out trying we had to 3 for about 5 yrs, one was mine and two my fathers.
deb Ive tried to talk with some succesful real estae people and they kind of look at you like you have 3 heads, not the friendliest people
Bill L The REIG group is not like that at all, some very helpfl folks, doing and fight the th good fight.
deb maybe I should look into that
Bill L I got to go, but here is my email BLACY@NAM.ORG
deb Im going to try to talk with PM tomorrow and see how far I get
deb oh ok have a good night
Bill L Good night talk to you next week.
jude hey, just making sure i’m in for next monday
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