Chat Transcript - May 21, 2007
Posted on May 22, 2007
Bill L *harp* 
Good Evening
Mike_Summey Hi Bill
Mike_Summey I was going to say “Looks like it just us, but here comes Ken & Theo” Welcome guys.
Theo_SC Hey everyone
Mike_Summey Theo, how are you finding the market in SC?
Bill L Good Evening
Mike_Summey Hi bgmike
Mike_Summey Hi sparky
Theo_SC Mike, I read your article, it’s good
ken Theo what part of SC are you in?
Mike_Summey Thanks Theo.
sparky37 Hi Mike
bgmike Hi everyone
Theo_SC Greenville, SC
Mike_Summey I had an interesting day today. I presented a program for Junior Achievement on Personal Finance to a group of 6th graders.
Mike_Summey Hi Brian
ken how did that go mike
Brian Hello Mike
Mike_Summey I was amazed at how the kids responded.
Bill L MIke, We coontacted Garrett Sutton about starting an LLC. ANd your name was worth $50.
Al Lee Hi, Mike
Bill L Thanks
Al Lee veryone
Mike_Summey I didn’t follow the curriculum the way Junio Achievement had is laid out, but we covered all the points and the kids seemed to have learned a lot.
Brian What was the program Mike?
Mike_Summey Hi Al & Price & Penny
Mike_Summey Brian, it was Personal Finance
Penny Hello Mike and everyone
Al Lee Roger is on the road today, eh?
Mike_Summey Hi corey & josh
Theo_SC Mike…have you experience the lender working with you on REO properties in the way of providing the finance?
Brian K!
Mike_Summey Roger is sluffing off on me. I’m going to have to talk with him about that.
corey Hi Mike, Mike Josh is my son he is working with me this summer
josh Hi
Theo_SC Hey Al, Penny
Al Lee Mike, maybe his probatin was revoked
Mike_Summey Corey, that’s great! Occasionally my sons Matt & Jason join in.
Al Lee lol
corey Al Lee do you know Del Walmsley
josh How old are your sons Mike?
Mike_Summey Josh, listen to everything your dad tells you. He’s on the right track.
Al Lee corey, I have talked to him brirefly via teleconference, but we are not friends.
Mike_Summey Josh, they are 23 & 25
Mike_Summey HI Kelly
Penny hi Theo! hope everything is going great!
Kelly Hola
Al Lee IF you listen to his radi h=show tomorrow you will hear my voice doing an ad :}
Al Lee radio show
corey Al Lee do you have an opinion on his organization?
Brian Cory..great to hear Josh is working with you..for the few of us that are new can you enlinghten us?
corey We fix hail damage to cars where a city, factory, has been hit with a large hail storm
Mike_Summey Hi ozzie, I see you got the problem fixed.
Al Lee corey, I do not have much of an opinion,but several peopel joined it and foudn that they could not find proeprties, so they went to our webstie and did find properties. he give “mentoring”, but I believe in getting to the point and offering cash flowing properties.
Al Lee corey, I guess you coudl say that I am more actin oriented and he is more talk oriented.
Mike_Summey I’m seeing our market continuing to soften. I got a call today from one of my banks about some properties they think they are going to get back through a deed in lieu of foreclosure.
corey Al Lee thanks for the info
Al Lee I end every radio show with the phrase “Without action , yoru dreasm are worth nothing”–then “God Bless America”
Al Lee your dreams
Kelly Al Lee, sorry, i came late what is your site?
Mike_Summey Kelly & Price, are you new to the chats?
Mike_Summey If so, where are you from.
Al Lee Kelly, I have several, www.buyRentHouse.net is one, www.RentHouses.org is another
Kelly Mike, I have been coming in since around March or so.
ken speaking of mentoring, I wrote to Mike today about lack of motivation, Last year I was making atleast 5 offers a week with in the past 7 months I made 4. Motivation is gone out the window, I think it is this new type of work I’ve been doing. Long story story I need to do somthing different for motivation anyone got suggestions? I thought about a mentor, the local REIC is about 2 hours away.
corey Mike I drove through Ashville a few weeks ago. I was working in Greenville, nc. If I would have had more time I would have gotten in touch with you.
Mike_Summey Al, I was in SanAntonio last weekend and Florida this weekend.
Al Lee Mike, why didn’t you call me ?
sparky37 ken where r u located?
ken Middle of PA
ken about 2 hours east of Pittsburgh
Mike_Summey Al, I was moving too fast. Left Asheville at 2:30 Saturday and was back in Asheville sunday afternoon.
sparky37 closer to Philly?
ken Nope
Al Lee Roger is coming here in June or July (can’t remember which) and I invited him to dinner (on me) at my club. That goes for you any time, too.
Mike_Summey Ken, did you get my email?
Brian Any Canadians on board tonight or ever???
ken Yes Mike thanks, I started working on bench marks and goals
Al Lee We certainly have had Canadians in the past
sparky37 Ken it is tough but the only one that can make you make an offer is you
Mike_Summey Brian, we have several Canadians, but I don’t know about tonight.
Al Lee Mike, just land at ADS, I’ll pick you up and it is 5 minutes to Bent Tree CC
Mike_Summey Ken, having a goal…something to work towards, is the best motivator if its a real goal and not just a wish.
sparky37 sometimes i give ridiculous low offers even though i know they will get rejected just to say i made an offer
Mike_Summey Hi santos
sparky37 but one day someone will accept and i will have agreat deal
santosleigh hello mike, hello al
Al Lee sparky, that is greate! I have done that and had the offer accepted. Bingo!
Mike_Summey sparky, you will be surprised when one is accepted. If you keep at it long enough you will have that experience.
Al Lee Hi, santo
Mike_Summey Hi Mac
Mike_Summey Welcome to the chat.
Mac Hi Mike
sparky37 as zig ziglar says if you r closing more then 10% of your sales calls you are not making enough calls!
Mike_Summey Where are you from Mac?
josh Mike I’m 19 and I want to get started early in real estate, so that I have more time to enjoy the benefits of it. Dad (Corey) has been helping me, by getting a few major credit cards to help get me some credit. We talked with a mortgage broker today, and he told us that I have to be 21 in order to have a mortgage…or i have to be emancipated
Mac Mike, I’m from Raleigh
Mike_Summey Josh, tell him to emancipate you!
josh haha
sparky37 Josh I am a mortgage broker and that is wrong information 18 is old enough
Price Mike_Summey Mike, my dad and i have just started investing and already purchased 3 sfh. We started a LLC and having problems getting the lender to put the houses in the LLC’s name. They seem to only let us put it in our names. How do you handle your properties.
Mike_Summey Mac, are you part of the REIA there?
Al Lee sparky, funny you should mention that. I just got asked to give salesmanship trianing to a large organizatin in Wash DC. I am really looking forward to it–if it actually happens. After all is said and done, more is usually said than done.
Mike_Summey Hi wood! Glad you can join us again.
Mike_Summey Wood is from China.
wood hello
sparky37 Al that is very true
santosleigh mike,still waiting for my title searches to be completed so i can move on to my next property.
Mac Mike, yes I am (TREIA). I’ve also met Jim Hitt from your Asheville REIA and have attended a class in Asheville. Great club.
Al Lee I have a frien dwho is quite wealthy and bought his first hosue at 18
sparky37 most people like to talk about what they should do, rather then just do it
Kelly Mike, when your banker lets you know about possible properties is that a local banker or higher up the chain? At what level would you suggest making contacts for that sort of information?
wood thanks for kind introduction
josh sparky37 my dad talked with a mortgage broker today, and in Mississippi I have to be at least 21. He then called his attorney and he also said the same thing. We’re from Misssissippi…where are you from?
Bill L Al I am in DC, when would you be up this way, if everything works out?
sparky37 ny/nj
Mike_Summey Price, the bank doesn’t care what name you put the properties in, what they want is your personal guarantee of the loan. That should not be a problem. I have no problem guaranteeing the loans.
Al Lee Bill, nothing is set as yet, but I will be sure to mentin it if/when it comes to pass
sparky37 Josh call a different broker or go to major bank direct
Mike_Summey santos, how long do you thnk it will take.?
Mike_Summey Hi krspack
krspack1 Hey Mike
santosleigh mike, one more week
josh sparky37 Will do!
Mike_Summey Kelly, you have to build relationships with bankers over a period of years to get that kind of call.
sparky37 1 more fyi, Walt Disney was turned down by I think 145 banks before the 146th said yes
wood i want to find a tutor to teach me ,anyone could help?
sparky37 imagine if he gave up
Mike_Summey josh, I’m from NC and you might have to wait until you’re 21, but dad can sign for you until then if you find a really good deal.
Kelly I didn’t think there would be 145 banks capable of financing Disney
josh thanks for the tip Mike
ken Mike what about taking properties subject to the mortgage?
Mike_Summey wood, the best place to get tutored right now is in these chats. The problem is none of us understand the way things are don in China so maybe you can educate us a bit.
Mike_Summey Hi Jason.
Price Mike_Summey I attended your seminar in Greenville last year. You mentioned you have several properties in Anderson. Are you still investing in Anderson and if so, how is the market there right now. Also, what PM are you using in Anderson?
Jason Hello
Mike_Summey Price, I use Anderson Management.
Mike_Summey Josh, I think my son Jason has just joined us. YOu may want to talk with him.
Bill L Mike or AL, What software do you use to track your proporties, at least in the beginning?
santosleigh mike, did you see those pictures my 1941 olds,
wood Mike, i want to learn something about finance
josh Hi Jason
Jason How are you Josh?
Kelly Mike, Price brings up another question. How far out do your properties extend? Multiple cities? States? Do keep a personal eye on them very often?
Al Lee Bill, my property managers use thei rmanagement software that produces nice monthly reports. I use Excel to keep my financial statement current, which includes property data and other data.
Mike_Summey ken, do not buy properties subject to a mortgage. If you do you will probably be making an illegal purcahse unless you notify the first mortgage leneder and get permission to do so.
wood i think the principle of invest will work here
Mike_Summey Bill, I have developed my own system that is a combination of Quicken Home & Busienss and EXCEL.
ken Mike your right, I never had, I was just thinking about this for josh, a way to get by the mortage thing
Mike_Summey santos, yes I did. Very interesting.
Al Lee santo, if it were a 53 Studebaker, I woudl be looking now :} :}
krspack1 Mike, your recommendation regarding using separate LLCs for each property. How have you organized ownership of your homes?
Bill L Thanks AL, Thank Mike
Mike_Summey Kelly, I own properties in Western NC & Upper SC. That’s all.
josh Jason: I’m doing really well. I have been talking with Mike and said that you might sign on. I’m 19 and i’m trying to get my head start in real estate. Have you made any investments in real estate?
Mike_Summey wood, what would you like to know about financing?
wood maybe what i said is not correct, i want to learn all of it
Mike_Summey krspack, I have not recommended using separate LLCs for each property. I don’t think that is necessary and is very cumbersom regarding doing all the things required to maintain an LLC.
Mike_Summey Hi cville
cville hi everyone
Kelly krspack1, I just set up an LLC and was astounded that in addition to the $1050 to set it up, it would cost me another $1000 per year to maintain it. I only make 150.00 per month positive cash flow and it will all go to the LLC.
wood i hope someone to help me,i dont have money,but i can do something else for him
krspack1 So you purchased each property as a sole proprietor
Mike_Summey wood, what your are doing right now will help you learn a lot. Watching the questions and then asking ones yourself will help you a great deal.
Al Lee Before you decide to own real estate in an LLC, or any other legal entity except for yoru own name, you had better check on what lenders think of it. IF you wamt to get the best loans, you will put th eproperties in yoru own name and carry liability insurance.
Jason Not as of now Josh. Since I came out of college I’ve been working hard to get my career off the ground, but need to seriously start. This is definitely a good place to be!
Mike_Summey Kelly, what state are you in. That’s sounds very high for an LLC.
krspack1 Kelly, you may want to take another look at that. I have 3 LLCs, each cost around $200 to set up.
josh What career are you going into Jason?
wood it is too slow here, sometimes i just cannot catch up with you
Al Lee The advice to form an an LLC to buy real estate is promoted by lawyers who make money on the LLCs. It is not what any of the dozen multi-millionaire real estate investors I know have done–unless theywere buying commercial properties.
corey Kelly my llc was about 100
Jason I’m a Deputy Sheriff here in Asheville
Jason You in school anywhere Josh?
krspack1 Al Lee, so what do they use
ken has anyone heard of a delaware series LLC?
krspack1 Ken, that is the typical LLC
Al Lee I know that Mike recently created soem LLCs for estate planning reasons,but that is not how any of us bought our properties. We all bought in oru ow names and carried liability insurance.
Kelly Mike_Summey, Tennessee, $300 per year Fee, about $300 per year in Taxes based on the value of the home and $275 per year for a business address since they wont accept a po box or my personal address.
josh Jason: I am attending the University of Southern Missisippi and I am majoring in Real Estate as well
Al Lee our own names
Mike_Summey Everyone, if you are spending more that around $650 to set up an LLC and more than about $200 per year to maintain it you might want to shop around.
Jason Good deal
krspack1 Al Lee, wouldn’t you want to use trusts and VULs for estate planning?
Al Lee Mike, the fees to the state vary from state to state
Kelly krspack1, I used the sutton law we were exposed to here 650 jfor the llc and 300 for Tn Fee
Mike_Summey Kelly, are you sure about that. It doesn’t sound right.
cville is it better to have liability than homeowners?
krspack1 Kelly, you don’t nessarialy need an attorney to set up an LLC
Bill L MIKE,that is the figures my wife was quoted.
cville at the moment I have 2 sons occupying the house with one other housemate
Al Lee krspack1, I use a well-crafted will that forms trusts spontaneously if I die, but that is certainly not the only method. The importatn think is that you shoud lnaot be worrying about estate planning unless you are 60 or above. First, build and estate!
Mike_Summey Al, I know that, but if one state is too high, you can set it up in a state that is more favorable. Wyoming is one fro example.
Al Lee Mike, Right!
cville yeah, that is why so many INC are regestered in NV
santosleigh mike, i just found a bank in my area that is it’s main base is in buffalo ny , where my properties are, should i stay with the bank i used in buffalo which gave me 100% financing on the last property, or get the next loan with this local bank, would the bank in buffalo be ticked off or is this how investors work.
Mike_Summey cville, as an investor, you do not need homeowners. Insurance agents may try to sell you homeowners, but all you need to insure is the structure, not the contents. You need both fire and all risk coverage on the property and liability coverage beyond that.
Al Lee Some of us are puttin gthe horse before the cart. Th eog=bjective is first to build wealth. Later, when you are older, you can start worrying about dying. If your primary focus now is planning to die, you will probably fail at building the welath.
wood something wrong with my coputer
krspack1 Al Lee, understood. That discussion did get a little off base. You do hear differing opinions on the use of LLCs
cville Is homeowners more expensive?
Mike_Summey santos, I recommend establishing good relationships with more that one bank.
Mike_Summey Hi mikeoh
mikeoh HI
Mike_Summey Right on Al!!!
Mike_Summey wood, it is probably a Chinese computer.
wood maybe it is not made in China
Mike_Summey cville, homeowners is more expensive because it insures more than just the structure. It insures contents as well.
Kelly My LLC has not been finalized. I suspect I may pull the plug because of the continuing costs to maintain it. I can use the 900 dollars saved each year and bump up my personal umbrella to enough to hopefully cover liabiltiy which is why I pursued the LLC in the first place.
josh Mike obviously I should try to network with other real estate investors, what other kinds of people should i try to get to know
Mike_Summey wood, in China how are properties financed?
cville Wood, could be you need to run “spybot search and distroy” great free program to get out the adware and garbage
santosleigh mike, that makes sense, can i get a loan with one bank and while i am getting one with another, is that possible
Al Lee Kelly, if you want to do what the successful investors did, just buy insurance. It is cheap!
cville for the moment, with both of mine and MY stuff…. I rent it furnished, and pretty much plan to continue that way, I will keep the homeowners then
Mike_Summey Kelly, that would be a very good idea. Don’t worry about an LLC if you are adequately insured. LLCs are better for estate planning that they are for liability protection.
Kelly Al Lee , I guess I had to go through the motions to find that out.
corey Mike you said that if I signed for Josh he could buy Real Estate. Would I be signing the mortgage as a cosigner or what would I have to sign
wood if you want buy house,you could get a loan
Mike_Summey santos, I have loans with 7 banks.
Mike_Summey cville, in that case get homeowners insurance.
josh Mike: I want to get my name out, so that eventually i will develop strong relationships and bankers will want to lend me their money. Should I make business cards and just set up an appointment with them, or what’s the best way to get my name out?
wood cville thanks
ken Mikeoh nice to see you made it.
Mike_Summey cville, most investors just rent the structure, not the furnishings.
mikeoh Hi Ken
Kelly Thanks for info all, I promised my boys I would watch Harry Potter tonight.
cville I rent to college kids, I don’t even WANT them to be moving stuff in and out
Al Lee josh, bankers aren’t impressed with busienss cards, they are impressed by financial statements.
Mike_Summey corey, yes you would be a co-signer.
santosleigh mike,i mean having loans applied at the same time
Mike_Summey corey, you could set up an LLC with you and Josh and then guarantee the loan for the LLC. YOu could own as much or as little of the LLC as you and Josh agree upon.
corey Mike we were actually just talking about that earlier today
Mike_Summey cville, be sue to do frequent inspections if yu are renting to college kids.
cville I buy my stuff at “storage auctions” furnished the place for about 500, and that included 3 bedrooms, with dressers, beds, desk and chair, washer and dryer!, plates, silverware, tons of glasses, blender, coffee maker etc
cville for the moment, I have my 2 sons living there, so not a prob
Mike_Summey josh, I suggest that you offer to take a few bankers to lunch and let them know what you are thinking and then ask them what they would like to see you do.
Al Lee FWIW: I got my tax appraisals for all my properties in the last month. I made more doing nothing this year that I ever made working 80 hours a week in my own business–and I did well in my business! Appreciation is a wonderful thing!
wood Mike,may i send email to you at usual?
cville It also has 2 futons and 2 chairs in the living room and I had an old kitchen table I was going to yard sale
Mike_Summey wood, yes you may. I may be a while answering as I get so meny emails.
krspack1 Al Lee, how long have you been investing
Mike_Summey wood, if you have questions, here is the place to get answers quickly.
josh Mike should I try to talk to mortgage brokers as well, or do you prefer bankers?
Al Lee I have bene investing since 1974 in real estate.
cville Mike so how do you think the Asheville area is doing?
krspack1 That is great
Al Lee : we just spent some serious bucks having our website updated. Please go look at www.buyRentHouse.net and feel free to comment.
sparky37 Al, that is awesome
wood I know little ,so I dont have any questions now
santosleigh mike, you mean i can apply for aloan while another loan is in process with another bank
Mike_Summey cville, it sounds like you don’t have much invested in furniture. The difference between fire and all risk coverange and homeowners may be more than you have invested in furnishing. Check it out with your insurance agent.
Al Lee santo, heck yes!
cville thanks Mike, I will.
Mike_Summey josh, mortgage brokers are also good contacts, but keep in mind they are middle men. If you can get financing directly from a bank you will probably do better.
sparky37 Al, who did the site?
Al Lee sparky Paramount Webmasters form New York.
santosleigh thanks Al, i will be seeing my new banker in the morning
Al Lee from
sparky37 ah my neck of the woods, looks expensive 1st class
cville I have a question about taxes. WHEN I have more than 2 properties, how does this change?
Mike_Summey cville, Asheville is just beginning to feel the squeeze the rest of the country has been feeling for about a year. Asheville generally runs 6-12 months behind the rest of the country on both ends of a cycle.
Al Lee I once got approved for 12 loans at the same time, 4 each from 3 lenders
Mike_Summey Hi justin
wood it is 8:50am here, I am in my office ,I hve to leave to work now
wood bye everyone
Mike_Summey Wood, glad you could join us from the other side of the world. Have a great day.
cville that is what I thought you had said, I have not yet found another deal, but again, still learning
sparky37 mortgage brokers r middel men, but also have more resources thena bank for people with less then perfect credit
Mike_Summey sparky, that is true.
Bill L HI JUstin, where are from?
Mike_Summey cville, are you in Asheville?
justin san antonio, tx
Al Lee cville, go to my website and click on “Streaming Audio”. I jost posted a radi show recording with an interview I did with a guy who is probalby the most knowledgeable tax man in the US, Sandy Botkin
Mike_Summey justin, I was just there last weekend.
Al Lee cville, fo to www. RentHousees.org for the link to Streaming Audio
Al Lee that is www.RentHouses.org
cville I have not had a chance to get to the courthouse to learn yet, but use the internet and the gis system alot
justin wow, was it work?
santosleigh Al, i guess my credit score of 820 would help with a multiple loan, right
cville yes mike asheville, south for home, woodfin is my rental
Al Lee santo, absolutely yes
sparky37 820 is an excellent score
cville thanks al, I will check that out
corey Justin I repaired Brown Chevrolets cars in Devine Last year from the hail storm that came through there
Mike_Summey Sorry, had to step away for a minute. Mother nature called!
sparky37 santo where r u located
Penny goodnight everyone, gotta run
ken Corey are you near that nea nuke plant they are putting in near portgibson ms
Mike_Summey justin, not work. My wife’s sister had an accident so I flew her down to stay with her for the week.
Al Lee I recommend to everyone that they read my book Mike and Roger’s books, and Sandy Botkin’s books. They then know infinitely more than I knew when I started investing in real estate.
Mike_Summey cville, I think we will see some real deals here in the next 12-18 months.
santosleigh Al, is there any way to speed up title insurance, it seems to be taking a long time for 2 properties
justin what do you think of san antonio market in general
corey Ken the plant has been there for years I am not sure if something new is going in. I grew up about 20 minutes from there but now live in Jackson about an hour away
cville I sure hope so, actually 12 months from now would be great
corey Ken how did you know about that
sparky37 santo where r u located?
Al Lee santo, ther eis no way. It is done by the lawyers searchng county records and if they are slow, they are slow.
Mike_Summey Al, if I had know 35 years ago what I know now, I might own the whole town.
ken news, the south TX project I heard broke ground already.
corey Ken where do you live
ken I heard they are putting in 2 new reactors at the Grand Gulf. won’t be operational till 2014 or so
ken PA
Mike_Summey santos, a long time for us old folks is 2 weeks. For some of our younger folks it may be 6 months.
santosleigh sparky, i am in nyc, but my attorney i use is in buffalo ny
corey Ken are you near Harrisburg
ken I did have a list of new reactors going in the usa about 20 total one is near Raleigh, No i’m about 2 hours east of pittsburgh
Mike_Summey Theo, you’ve been very quiet tonight!
sparky37 santo i am in ny/nj border I can help you if you need
Al Lee Mike, When I had Carleton Sheets on my show we talked about the tact that peopel seem to think they need to know everything ther is to know before they invest. They don’t. In fact, after a few hours of condensed information as we provide in our books, on my radio show, or in our seminars, they already know more than Carleton, you, or I knwo when we started.
Mike_Summey Al, that is so true!
ken Those plants bring in lots of growth when Constructed not sure how they will do with these new ones
santosleigh sparky, how can you help me
Mike_Summey Al, I was going to call in to your show yesterday but I got sidetracked and missed it.
sparky37 if you need title or loans or attorneys
Bill L Yes you guys had to learn as you went!!!
corey Mike can you say how many units one of your larger apartment complexes would be
Al Lee Mike, let’s schedule another call-in interview. We always have a great time doing that.
Mike_Summey I had a wonderful experiencing this morning talking to a bunch of 6th graders about personal finance. Those kids are much smarter than I was at that age.
cville I have already learned so much!!! I charge a late fee (never have used it) since I offer a “discount” of $15.00 if it is early!! (3 or more days before the due date) Thanks Mike
Bill L Please publish the time and date as I would like to hear the interview…
Mike_Summey corey, my largest is 43 units.
santosleigh sparky, sounds good
Mike_Summey Al, let’s do it.
Al Lee I’ll call you to set a date, Mike
ken Mike that is good to hear
Bill L Just remeber with rents it is BUSINESS!
Mike_Summey Well everyone, I’m going to have to call it a night. I have an early day tomorrow.
Mike_Summey I’ll see you all here next week.
Bill L Good NIght Mike
sparky37 thanks mike, have a good one
cville time passes quickly, night all
josh Goodbye Mike Thanks for all of the help!
Al Lee I have twio kids asking when I will be able to give them some time, so I need to run
Mike_Summey Please feel free to stay and talk among yourselves as long as you want.
Mike_Summey goodnight
Al Lee Goodnight Mike,
corey Mike if possible I would be great if you could set up links to anywhere you have audio events such as Al Lee because I have found some of these of you and always want to here anywhere you have spoken
Bill L good night LA
Al Lee Goodnight everyone
Bill L AL
Al Lee Bill, yes?
Al Lee OK, you saidn Goodnight
Bill L Sorry that was good night AL not LA
Al Lee Goodnight
sparky37 night all
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