Chat 12-20-04
Posted on December 20, 2004
Welcome to the chat, Ralph Roberts!
[Seminar Room]: Ralph Roberts has entered (7:56 pm)
Ralph Roberts: hi guys
Ralph Roberts: and gals
Sean McLellan: hey Ralph
Ralph Roberts: what, no gals??
Ralph Roberts: hi Sean
Mike Summey: I’d love for you to write a 500-800 word piece about how you did it and send it to me.
Mike Summey: We’re all early Ralph. Been waiting on you.
Sean McLellan: I think that can be arranged
Mike Summey: We’re gathering some good stories to post on the website a little later.
Mike Summey: Hi Dennis, Calvin & William
Mike Summey: I didn’t mean to ignore you guys.
william: its all good
Sean McLellan: cash-flow-joe was here earlier, we spoke for a while. he said to tell you hello, Mike. he said you would remember him. he couldn’t make it tonight.
[Seminar Room]: Roger Dawson has entered (7:58 pm)
[Seminar Room]: Dennis has entered (7:58 pm)
Mike Summey: Oh, that’s too bad.
Sean McLellan: Hello, Roger
Roger Dawson: Hi everyone!
Ralph Roberts: hi Roger!
Mike Summey: Hi Roger….Oh great one!
[Seminar Room]: Rick has entered (7:59 pm)
Dennis: Hello All
Mike Summey: Hi Rick
Mike Summey: Hi Dennis
Rick: Hi Mike
Roger Dawson: Ralph, I like the Santa and his sleigh
Mike Summey: Ralph is a trip isn’t he?
Ralph Roberts: like what Santa has in his bag, eh?
Roger Dawson: The excitement never ends!
Ralph Roberts: books make nice gifts 
Mike Summey: roger are you ready to negotiate tonight?
Roger Dawson: Yes, ready to go
Mike Summey: Everyone that in now, get your negotiating question to Roger before the crowd shows up.
Roger Dawson: I teach my audiences that all power in a N. comes from convincing the other side that you have options.
Mike Summey: The reason I wrote the book with Roger is because he has made me so much money over the years that I promised tomake him famous.
Roger Dawson: The number one pressure point is convincing the other side that you’re prepared to walk away. You give yourself walk away power by giving yourself options.
Roger Dawson: Mike, I’d rather you made me rich.
[Seminar Room]: tomB has entered (8:03 pm)
Mike Summey: Some thing are possible, other ???
Mike Summey: Hi Tom
tomB: hi all
Roger Dawson: Is tomb a Tom or a tomboy?
tomB: Tom boy in chilly NYC
tomB: chilly and overpriced
Mike Summey: Roger, what’s the best response when an offer is rejected with no counter?
william: i went to the becah today
Roger Dawson: I spent last week in Illinois and Wisconsin. I’ve no idea why people live there. It was freezing.
tomB: rub it in
william: lol
Mike Summey: Tom, it was 7 degrees here in NC this morning with snow. Don’t complain about the weather.
tomB: Here it was only 12. I should have went to the beach too
tomB: I didn,t realize it got that cold in NC
Roger Dawson: When they refuse to counter I’d wait a couple of weeks and call them up again. There’s a thing called acceptance time. It takes people a while to realize that they’re not going to get what they want.
william: well, the prices for a home are still high here in California
[Seminar Room]: JackB has entered (8:07 pm)
tomB: time is the best motivator sometimes
Mike Summey: Tom, I’m in the mountains in the Western part of the state. I’ve seen it minus 26 before and we’ve gotten over 60″ of snow in a single storm.
Mike Summey: Hi Jack
tomB: WOW!
Roger Dawson: William, my friends in the industry are telling me that demand has softened a lot, expecially in the 400K and above price points.
JackB: Hellom All, Thanks for the invite
tomB: But what about the rents Roger?
JackB: Mike thanks for the quick response to my e-mail
Mike Summey: You’re welcome, but this is the place to get instant responses.
Roger Dawson: With the crazy prices in CA it’s really hard to get enough rent to cover your costs.
tomB: I know the feeling. I am having the same problem in NYC
JackB: Mike I looked at a two-fam flat today. It needs alot of work. I have a question
tomB: Its time for me to move outward of the city but I dont know where
Mike Summey: I’ve been at this for 30 years here in the Carolinas and throughout all those years, I’ve had to find the “DEALS” to make the numbers work.
Mike Summey: Go ahead Jack.
tomB: finding the deals seperates the men from the boys
Mike Summey: tom, that’s why we suggest you start by getting in your car and riding.
JackB: should I get it appraised first, do the work and get the second appraisal
tomB: a lot of people give up too soon
JackB: it lists for 69,000 and will retail for 110,00
Mike Summey: Jack, appraisals are for banks. they won’t tell you anything about whether or not you are getting a good deal. The only way to do that is run the numbers like we show you in the book and they see if you can buy with the NOI.
william: im in california , but to get a good deal, i will have to look in other states
JackB: It needs about 15,000 of work
tomB: jack, do the numbers before and after the work
JackB: ok
tomB: william, where will you look
Mike Summey: Jack, run the numbers based on what the property will bring after you fix it up. Value it based on these numbers then subtract the amount it will take for repairs.
william: is it advisable to buy say in arizona or jacksonville, fl. if im here in california,
tomB: Californai is big like NY. there might be some areas worth looking at
william: since im so far away,
william: get a management co. to help.?
Sean McLellan: ideally you should be close to your properties so that you can keep an eye on them
JackB: It looks like I will be up about 10,000 if it works out
Mike Summey: william, yes it is, but only after you establish a relationship with a property manager that you trust.
william: great
JackB: this is my first deal and i am alittle scared
Roger Dawson: Remember that two things make property go up in value — scarcity and inflation. If you go to areas like Phoenix and Tucson, where there is unlimited land to build on, it’s hard to see scarcity pushing prices up.
tomB: Roger, is taht good or bad for an investor?
tomB: that
[Seminar Room]: Ralph Roberts has entered (8:16 pm)
Mike Summey: Hi sermiex
tomB: but if they go up you can take money out to invest more, no?
sermiex: Hi All
Roger Dawson: Mike, even if you never sell, you still want rents to go up, don’t you?
Mike Summey: tomB, yes, that’s the bonus.
tomB: rents that rise help build cash reserves
Mike Summey: Roger, the inflation part is the bonus. If you buy right you don’t need it to make money. Where people get in trouble is when they buy needing inflation to push prices up in order to make the numbers work.
Roger Dawson: Are you seeing occupancy rates go up as higher interest rates stop renters from buying?
tomB: thats a big risk right now in my opinion
Mike Summey: Roger, any tips on how to negotiate deals that work when asking prices make it seem impossible or at least improbable?
[Seminar Room]: MarkCT has entered (8:20 pm)
Mike Summey: Hi Mark
Mike Summey: Glad you could join us.
MarkCT: Hi Mike. I’m joining you until my dinner is ready.
JackB: anyone rent to section 8?
Mike Summey: Mark, eat late!
JackB: Is it good or bad
Mike Summey: Or earlier.
Mike Summey: That’s what I have to do.
MarkCT: That’s what happens when you have two active kids.
Roger Dawson: I think that it’s a good idea to put in writing why you are offering what you are. Sellers hate to think that you’re lowballing them. Give them the reasons. What it’s going to cost to rehab the property and get it rented etc.
Mike Summey: Yep
MarkCT: I started working on our project. Hopefully I’ll have something to show you soon.
JackB: section 8 good or bad?
Roger Dawson: I used to have a lot of section 8 tenants. I didn’t like the idea of government subsidies, but they are steady renters.
Mike Summey: Mark, great! I look forward to seeing it.
JackB: did the tenants respect the property?
tomB: Isn’t sec 8 guaranteed income?
JackB: yes
JackB: they will pay you rent based on the area
Roger Dawson: Section 8 are Okay tenants in my experience. They don’t have many financial options so they don’t give you any trouble.
Mike Summey: One negotiating technique I use is to make two offers at the same time. One for cash at a low price; one asking for favorable terms at the asking price or slightly above.
MarkCT: Can you raise the rent on Section 8 tenants?
Mike Summey: Depending on which one gets a response it tells me which way to go with future counter offers.
tomB: Mike, with the availabilty of cheap money and a sellers market do people still give terms on their proporty to sell it?
Mike Summey: tomB, absolutely! There are plenty of people who don’t want cash with the rates so low.
MarkCT: I had someone offer to take back financing this summer. This was 2 months after they turned down my intial offer for cash.
Mike Summey: Good point Mark
tomB: Why did they do that?
MarkCT: They realized that no one would offer them what they were asking for.
Mike Summey: Like Roger said before you entered the chat, sometimes people need some time to realize they aren’t going to get what they want.
tomB: The financing amount was more than the cah offer?
tomB: cash
Roger Dawson: You’ve also got tax advantages to the seller when they don’t take all of the equity out at once.
MarkCT: Yes. If I financed the purchase at 1 or 2% then I could offer them more than what I could borrow at the bank for 6%.
tomB: I see
Mike Summey: Many sellers are looking to convert real estate equity into an income stream for retirement. These people make excellent prospects for seller financing.
tomB: Is there one way to find these people that works better than others?
tomB: Or do I just keep farming?
[Seminar Room]: TT has entered (8:30 pm)
Mike Summey: Another good negotiating point for seller financing is to point out to the seller what the bank will pay them for the money if they deposit it and then offer to pay them more than the bank.
MarkCT: People don’t advertise seller financing. Most probably haven’t even thought about it. That’s why Mike suggests making two offers to see if they bite.
Mike Summey: Hi TT
TT: i
MarkCT: It never occurred to me before I read it in the book.
Mike Summey: tomB, whne I make two offers and use the seller’s response to guide me on which way to go, I very often smoke out people willing to finance.
tomB: Did you get the property Mark?
Roger Dawson: In the old days of assumable loans, sellers carrying back a second was very common. Now they have to have a lot of equity to make it work.
[Seminar Room]: john has entered (8:32 pm)
MarkCT: No. They were still asking for too much. Couldn’t meet my NOI but it did get me a lot closer.
Mike Summey: Before the advent of the “Due On Sale” clause, we looked for people with small equity, Now we look for sellers with big equity.
Mike Summey: Hi john
john: hi mike
JackB: mike or roger do you recommend to get a home equity line of credit to buy my first piece of property
MarkCT: It took me a couple of more months but I ended up buying 2 properties that work very well.
tomB: patience pays off
Roger Dawson: JackB yes, that’s fine but you’ve got to figure in the cost of borrowing when you run the numbers.’
TT: Roger how do you know when to stop negotiating and agree to the deal?
JackB: I would have about 90,000 to start with
MarkCT: Its hard but if you stick to making sure you cover the NOI (plus a return) it pays off.
[Seminar Room]: jermil has entered (8:35 pm)
JackB: thanks
[Seminar Room]: BB has entered (8:35 pm)
Mike Summey: Jack, use the HELOC to provide seed money to put deals together with the idea of refinancing ina year of so for enough to repay the HELOC.
Mike Summey: Hi jermial & BB
MarkCT: I bought my properties with my HELOC. Got a great deal and refinancing the purchase with a conventional loan.
Roger Dawson: TT, bracket your objective so that it’s mid way between the two opening negotiating positions. When you end up in the middle, you get what you want, but the seller thinks it was fair.
jermil: hello
MarkCT: Cash is a nice negociating tool.
Mike Summey: Cash gets you the best price, but price gets you the best terms.
tomB: Roger, I shoul have studied psychology.
Roger Dawson: Yes, Mark. but don’t assume that the sellers want cash. We all tend to think that other people are like us. It may not be true at all.
jermil: what is the best way to start been reading books but can seem to get off the fence and start
MarkCT: Gotta go. Steaks on. Talk to you soon Mike.
Roger Dawson: Jermil the final eight chapters of our book give you a blueprint for how to get started.
Mike Summey: Roger, I learned that the hard way several years ago. I kept pressing a seller to lower their price only to have another investor buy at a much higher price and get terms. We all learn the hard way sometimes.
jermil: i have acess to the mls i think i have a foot up on the comp here
Mike Summey: jermil, follow the 8 steps in the back of our book. Do those things and you will have done everything you need to do to be successful. You just have to keep doing them over and over.
Mike Summey: Talk with you later Mark.
TT: Roger then you start with your objective in mind and the asking price,and your first offer should be the lower bracket, way below your objective,right?
[Seminar Room]: sermiex has entered (8:40 pm)
john: mike - i learned the same lesson a few months ago. lost three REO properties by $1,000 because i was negotiating for lowest price instead of terms. Can you successfully start with price then switch to terms?
Mike Summey: Everyone, there is no better teacher than experience. Start making offers that work for you. When one is finally accepted, you won’t get hurt.
Roger Dawson: That’s right TT. Assume that you will end up mid way between the two opening negotiating positions.
sermiex: Mike, FYI - I got kicked out - had trouble getting back in - had to close browser and start all over
Mike Summey: john, that’s why I usually make two offer in the beginning. One cash the other terms.
[Seminar Room]: Katherine has entered (8:42 pm)
tomB: But both offers have to work don’t they?
JackB: mike or roger do you know much about st. louis houseing market? I hear it is still undervalued for the most part
Roger Dawson: I think that making two offers also projects strength as a buyer.
Mike Summey: sermix, maybe Ralph can help on that issue. He’s the computer guru.
Mike Summey: Hi Katherine.
Katherine: Hi Mike and gang!
john: So with two offers then, the best way is one on price and one on terms?
sermiex: Don’t stop the chat - the info is valuable
Roger Dawson: JackB I’m not up on St. Louis these days, but it used to be a great investment town with a very strong real estate investment club.
JackB: i joined it last month
Roger Dawson: After the chat check our list of investor Clubs on this website. It’ll give you a contact for you to call in St. Louis.
Mike Summey: tomB, yes both have to work. Here’s an example: $1000 per month for 15 years will pay a $100,000 mortgage at about 9% or a $180,000 mortgage at 0%. Somewhere between those extremes may be a combination of price and terms that will work for the seller.
jermil: has anyone purchase HUD homes i heard they don`t reduce there proce by that much
JackB: it seems like investors here like to help people get started
Ralph Roberts: Sermiex: probably just noise or heavy traffic on your route… too many variables to say… sorry
[Seminar Room]: Penny has entered (8:45 pm)
Roger Dawson: You can check out HUD homes on their website HUD.gov. Stay away from HUD.com — it’s a foreclosure service.
Mike Summey: jack, this is a friendly site where the exchange of information is more important that selfish self interests.
Roger Dawson: Hi Penny!
Ralph Roberts: the Internet is 90% magic and 10% technolgy
Mike Summey: Hi Penny
Ralph Roberts: hi Penny!!
tomB: I see Mike. Base your offer on NOI and structure it differently to meet the sellers needs
TT: With the terms offer should you try to meet their asking price?
Penny: Hi Roger, Mike, and Ralph, and everyone!
Mike Summey: tomB, now you’ve go it.
tomB: cool
Mike Summey: TT, often I can offer more than the asking price with the right terms and get a better deal that a substantial discount for cash.
jermil: what kind of marketing you do to get leads besides business cards
TT: Yes I remember now it is in the book!!
tomB: Has anyone ever advertised for property?
[Seminar Room]: RyanTX has entered (8:50 pm)
[Seminar Room]: cash-flow-joe has entered (8:50 pm)
tomB: Cash paid for houses. Call me?
Mike Summey: Here’s another example: A $120,000 loan at 7% for 15 years has a payment of $1,078.59. The same payment for the same lenght of time will pay off a loan of $156,185.73 at 3% interest.
Mike Summey: Hi Ryan & Joe
RyanTX: Hello
cash-flow-joe: hello Mike
cash-flow-joe: 620 Sean
Mike Summey: jermil, I find that getting out and riding give more leads that anything else I have done.
[Seminar Room]: James_Tx has entered (8:51 pm)
Mike Summey: Hi James
James_Tx: Hi Mike
Sean McLellan: Hey joe
Mike Summey: Where has everyone been. Did you guys miss the start time?
Roger Dawson: Talking to real estate agents and finding the ones that want to work with investors is a good way to generate leads.
Roger Dawson: Go to your local investor clubs, too.
Sean McLellan: 620, that isn’t as bad. you could probably rebuild substantially by next December and be ready to go
James_Tx: Mortgage broker and just got the email
cash-flow-joe: i read a few things that said it was at the bottom of average
Sean McLellan: yeah–from what you were saying, i was guessing mid 500’s
Sean McLellan: so you’re definitely better off than i was originally thinking.
RyanTX: I was at the bookstore, buying some more books
Mike Summey: Another negotiating tactic I use frequently is to ask for several things I don’t expect to get. Things like furniture, paintings, all the closing costs, etc.
cash-flow-joe: i was suprised too
tomB: Mike, do you still go out riding or do deals come to you now?
Mike Summey: Ryan, you should have been buying contract forms to fill out.
James_Tx: depends on if your negotiating with the original seller or a wholesaler though doesnt it
RyanTX: I’ll have to look into that
Mike Summey: tomB, I rode a neighborhood today and have two numbers to call in the morning.
TT: As a marketing/negotiating tool to get a better class of tenant how do you feel about offering to lease option your property to a tenant? Knowing ahead of time that few are ever exercised…
Sean McLellan: there are many techniques for bettering your credit score, i suggest finding a book on the subject and implementing the tactics over the next year. that will help you out. of course if you find someone who can offer seller financing, it won’t matter–but it’s always better to have more options rather than less, and traditional financing can enable you to do many things you wouldn’t otherwise be able to do
william: how did you get the two munbers
Mike Summey: TT, I don’t like lease options because I don’t like the ones who do exercise the option. It’s all a matter preference.
Roger Dawson: I don’t see much advantage in lease optioning for the owner, unless it’s to be purchased at market price.
James_Tx: ask a mortgage broker for a credit repair service or attorney…i have had very good luck but it took a while to weed out the garbage
cash-flow-joe: i’ll be sure to do that then Sean
Mike Summey: william, I just clicked off a moment and ran the numbers with the calculator in Carleton Sheets Real Estate Toolkit.
Mike Summey: william, if you don’t have it it iw well worth the money. I can’t get along without mine.
Roger Dawson: Lease optioning for the buyer is a great tool. You lease option it and then rent it out to a tenant to cover expenses. If it goes up in value you exercise the option. If it doesn’t you renegotiate.
william: i have it
Mike Summey: william, there is a link on the home page of this website you can use to purchase it. It ahs many more tools as well that you will need if you are going to invest in real estate.
william: i have the mortgage calculator
cash-flow-joe: what kind of down payment would you say i would need with a 620 on say something in the range of 80 K?
James_Tx: depends on the lender….most likely 20-25%
tomB: Mike, what led you to the two phone numbers you got?
Mike Summey: Roger, give me a call.
Sean McLellan: also depends on the value of the home
william: you can get 100% financing with a 620 score
Sean McLellan: assuming owner-occupancy
cash-flow-joe: well then i’m in good shape
James_Tx: owner occupied for the 100%
Mike Summey: tomB, for sale signs on the properties. New ones that weren’t there last week when I rode.
william: 1st at 80% 2nd at 20%
Mike Summey: Joe, why not look for deals where you can finance 50% with a bank on a 1st mortgage and 50% with the seller on a 2nd.?
cash-flow-joe: ah….i see
Sean McLellan: www.mortgageops.com i have three mortgages through this lender–they’ve worked out some great things with me, if you’re going 100% traditional financing, i’d suggest giving them a call, explaining your situation, and seeing what they can offer you.
william: good idea mike
James_Tx: the bank will still look at the CLTV with owner financing
Roger Dawson: Mike, how do you get that second on there. Do you run a double escrow?
cash-flow-joe: that makes sense too Mike
Mike Summey: james, if the loan to value ratio is low enough the bank won’t care about the second.
Mike Summey: If you can fog a mirror you can get 20-40% bank financing even with bad credit.
william: the best you can get on 100% would be 5.25 interest only on the first and about 8.5% on th second
Mike Summey: When the seller has a large enough second behind the bank that is often better security for the bank than your good credit.
Sean McLellan: that is assuming full documentation, which joe doesn’t have two years worth of tax returns that would support that good of a rate, i don’t think.
James_Tx: sure its fine if you get a very small LTV of 65% or less but they will take into consideration the CLTV if you are trying to get over 80%CLTV and be a lot more restrictive
Mike Summey: james, that is correct.
william: 12 months banks statements is all you would need
Mike Summey: Roger, the second is put in place at closing jsut like the first.
James_Tx: most of the lender that i use are very cautious of NOO property that goes over 80%LTV…have a few that will go all the way to 100% but credit becomes a factor as does cash flowing the deal at those interest rates
william: VERY TRUE, JAMES
tomB: NOO?
Roger Dawson: Non owner occupied
James_Tx: what he said
tomB: thanks
william: the best out there is 95% ltv no owner occupied
william: hard to find but its out there
Sean McLellan: the company i mentioned has that program available
Sean McLellan: but i’m not sure what the credit score requirement is
James_Tx: there are straight 100% loans but they are tough to make cash flow
william: cool
cash-flow-joe: that’s what i hear,
william: i put it in my favorites for the future Mike
James_Tx: if you can get a property with a great deal…then 100% might work but you would be better off going subject too and then refinancing the deal with a lender that has no seasoning issues at a lower LTV
Mike Summey: I think you are all overlooking some great opportunities. Sellers with high equities have many options when they sell. One of the best techniques out ther is a low 1st mortgage with a conventional lender and a large 2nd with the seller. Believe me, there are many such opprotunities just waiting for someone to grab them.
Roger Dawson: Of course if you have equity in other properties, it’s a lot easier. Give the seller a second on one of your other properties.
cash-flow-joe: what is the best way to rapidly boost your credit?? I have until Jan. 06 before I plan to start the ball rollin’,
Mike Summey: James, I view “subject to” deals like I would playing Russian Rouletter. Most of the time you win, but occasionally you can get your head blown off.
william: isnt your score 620 joe. you have no reason to wait if so
James_Tx: this is true and i wouldnt reccomend them for a beginner
cash-flow-joe: you think so
Roger Dawson: William, what do these numbers mean. Like a 620 score?
Sean McLellan: 620 credit score
Mike Summey: joe, if you have reservations, forget the banks for a few months and look for deals you can make with seller financing. They don’t usually check your score.
william: with scores above 580 can get 100% financing, etc
James_Tx: a 620 would be enough for conventional financing at full doc
william: right james
william: or 12 months bank statements showing deposits,
Mike Summey: Worrying about conventional financing has kille dthe enthusiasm of more new investors that probably any other thing.
James_Tx: true
william: like mike says look for the good deals and you wont have to worry about the financing
Mike Summey: There are hundreds of ways to buy without conventional financing.
william: BINGO, Mike
JackB: mike do you do many deals with FSBO?
cash-flow-joe: and all of these ways are in the book?
James_Tx: there are a lot of great Alt-A and subprime lenders that have a lot of niche products that serve investors very well
Mike Summey: Plus many private investors looking for a place to shift money from bank CD rates to higher secure yields.
James_Tx: try and find a portfolio lender…they are lending their own money so they will be more willing to make exceptions if the deal makes sense
Roger Dawson: I would call every FSBO that comes on the market. Particularly look for out of town area codes that indicate an out of town owner.
JackB: good one
Mike Summey: Here’s the best advice I have for tonight: LOOK FOR THE PEOPLE WHO CAN SAY YES AND FORGET ABOUT WORRYING ABOUT THE ONES WHO CAN ONLY SAY NO.
James_Tx: my office produces a FSBO Magazine locally and I have found a lot of good deals and some real dogs
tomB: What part of TX are you in James?
Roger Dawson: I have to leave you now. Good chat. See you next week.
James_Tx: San Antonio…work the whole state
tomB: See you Roger
Mike Summey: Don’t forget that FSBO means For Sale By Owner, not Fire Sale By Owner.
James_Tx: night Rodger
JackB: Mike, thanks for the invite. I enjoyed it. hope to speak with you soon. good night
Mike Summey: Goodnight Roger.
James_Tx: where are you Tom?
cash-flow-joe: I’m young and still in college with a year left, do you guys think I should start now or wait it out until graduation?
tomB: NYC
tomB: Joe, the best time to start is now.
Mike Summey: We’ve had some very good questions and a good exchange of information. I want to thank everyone for their participation and hope you will all join us next week.
James_Tx: good place to be…not as many lending restictions as we have here…HELOCS almost dont exist here
Ralph Roberts: a complete transcript of tonight’s chat will be posted shortly
tomB: everyon has one here. The lenders push them
cash-flow-joe: Mike, tell Jason and Matt Luke Silver says hello
Mike Summey: I’m going to have to leave you as well, but please feel free to stay and talk amoung yourselves for as long as you like.
James_Tx: yeah I used to work for the statge coach lender…did a lot of them out of state
Mike Summey: Will do Luke.
James_Tx: Night Mike
Sean McLellan: bye Mike
tomB: I have to go. Godd night everyone
Ralph Roberts: night, Mike
Mike Summey: See everyone next week. Same time same place.
cash-flow-joe: good night all
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